The Quiet One beckons all of the clones to the main table in the lab as it unfolds a large piece of paper. It is worn around the edges, and as it is unfolded it becomes clear that it is in fact multiple scraps of paper that have been joined together at the edges with various fasteners. The paper is covered in makings, notes, diagrams, and writings that were obviously generated by Quiet. Gesturing at a series of boxes and lines it communicates, "This is what we know so far, I believe. Please let me know if you see any error." Studying the markings you can clearly make out notations for the successful research projects that the clones have already accomplished, as well as notes for the many potential projects that remain.
// Please see Research Tech Tree posted separately. I suggest we keep our discussions of what to do next here in this thread and keep them in character as much as possible.
The Quiet One points to the section of the technology tree focused on weapons, "We have made much progress toward an electromagnetic pulse weapon to disable human machines. Their machines have been getting stronger, and I believe this weapon would be our best focus next."
It looks up to the rest of the clones, "After finishing that weapon it would make sense to work on improved medicine, but it would be a shame to waste our progress toward this new weapon when we are so close." The Quiet One then looks toward The Scowling One, "Regardless, I support the decision of the group, in the manner you have suggested." Turning to the rest, "What do you think?"
// Craft Mechanical: 9
// Supporting Weapons Research, or what ever is consensus.
X-COM: Aliens
Moderator:Lazybones
Re: X-COM: Aliens
Strong nodded at Quiet. "Yes, better weapons good idea. We do good when we hit humans hard and fast. Better weapons hit harder so don't need new medicine right now. But I go with others if they want better medicine."
//Research: 5 or Craft Structural: 7 if we're building the cyberdisk. And sorry for disappearing like that, but I had a pressing matter to attend to.
//Research: 5 or Craft Structural: 7 if we're building the cyberdisk. And sorry for disappearing like that, but I had a pressing matter to attend to.
Re: X-COM: Aliens
See started Fast, no need to apply any interstellar computation algorithm, we shall pack one grenade of each type, one pack of ammo, something to shoot humans with and a bit of healing or repair intergalactic glue. Anything extra should go the specialists...
The team was back in the lab. Fast was eager to complete the present task as he was aware that there was a new clone body, some kind of super-floater that was being manufactured for him.
There was still some debate about what task had to be completed first.
"EMP! Do EMP to fry human things. Will be a lot easier to take down their tools."
// Craft Mechanical: 11
// Supporting Weapons Development
The team was back in the lab. Fast was eager to complete the present task as he was aware that there was a new clone body, some kind of super-floater that was being manufactured for him.
There was still some debate about what task had to be completed first.
"EMP! Do EMP to fry human things. Will be a lot easier to take down their tools."
// Craft Mechanical: 11
// Supporting Weapons Development
Re: X-COM: Aliens
"I still not think that right," Nimble added, "How to split up things most of all. Will help with weapons if all insist, but think we not see many humanz inside moving boxes so far. Mostly see ones with weapons, and we need protection from the weapons soon. They mostly not use things hurt all of us at once, but if they start do that then all bets off." The human phrase transmitted at the end seems odd to their receptors. "Also if doing this we need to change how work, and what Fast say not good idea."
The clone seemed quite insistant. "Grenades go with one or two of us, and the ones at the front who can get closest unseen. No use with clones who stay at back." It pointed at the regen serum specifications. "That make us better but make us shoot worse. Most go to Strong, who not need shoot, we other clones take one each for eeemergencee." The word came along with an image of a badly damaged clone triggering the pack.
"Those not be used by shooting clones." Nimble pointed at the syringes of fluid. "While holding them we not shooting. Leave for Scowling or Pale, they take reeesponsibileeety. Also the the fast application ones, because know where to put them better." It hesitated a moment, looking at Scowling, seemingly realising it was asking for trouble voicing loudly on organisation.
"We not have lots of stuff, and need work smart or not get through',." the clone continued in a wheedling tone, as if justifying the outburst. "If we need upload again Elder might sense block we have now. Need to not be uploaded if we can."
((Craft Mech still 11 for weapons, if you insist, but I reserve the right to say "Told you so!"
Also have to speak up on the way things are distributed. I don't like to do this, I'd rather work it out IC, but last week was stupid, with my character left with bugger all but a rifle and not enough ammunition to actually fully load it. We have to play as a team here. We've been together long enough to believe this shouldn't be an issue, but as it seems it is I'm giving in to the need to rant.
Our healing is very limited. We've no option on stocking up with kits like the last campaign. Strong (GW) needs the regen serum. He can't sneak and is a target pretty quickly. Plus the Dex hit buggers up our hit chance with weapons. We take one for emergency and all spares go to the melee guy.
You're talking about needing to DPS down the opposition fast, and you can't do that while messing around with healing. Particularly from a syringe when you have to equip it. The syringes have to be with those less likely to hit. I've ID'd Scowling (SA) and Pale (Shad) as I think it's likely their characters, but that could be reconsidered if they're more able to hit with the new weapons.
Arguments for us taking the "healing kits" and not the regen serum are void, because the regen serum is self-only and that means they are useless in the hands of a team healer. The healing kit things should stay with the designated team healer(s).
I don't care about having the best weapons, I never have - it's not why I play at all - but taking them while we're ICly discussing where it's best assigned is not the way to do things. There's an argument for them being given to the two worst shots, as that improves overall chances, or to the best shots as we then have really successful firepower even if limited. I'm open to which we do, but if we're not able to discuss it IC before someone makes a unilateral decision then we should make the decision here.
Grenades need to be used intelligently, and giving everyone one each so that we have to discuss who still has one, or waste them by both throwing at once, is not sensible. Not least if we need them to blow up locations rather than just NPCs. Plus we're still damaging others who are close to the targets. There's no Dex roll on thrown items - I don't believe - but Floaters make the most sense, as we can get closest to assess the situation before throwing one. That is if you can ensure you're working the front of the group. On this one I'd say don't leave Nimble out of it as I'm willing to bet I'm the only one who's put cross-class points into Demolitions. We can think about who has them, but again - while we are working out grenade strategy we aren't shooting. So I'd say no more than two of us.
Ammunition is not as limited as it seems if we just consider how many rounds we usually shoot. I don't think I've passed 50 rounds yet, rarely having to worry about reloading, as Modern fights are fast and furious. There's usually a couple of spare packs, though if Strong goes muton fast that will change, so we should take one each and then one take the spares. It doesn't matter who, as long as it's clear. If anyone needs an ammo top up they then know who to ask.
Let's try playing this like a group used to raiding together, and not a PUG!
))
The clone seemed quite insistant. "Grenades go with one or two of us, and the ones at the front who can get closest unseen. No use with clones who stay at back." It pointed at the regen serum specifications. "That make us better but make us shoot worse. Most go to Strong, who not need shoot, we other clones take one each for eeemergencee." The word came along with an image of a badly damaged clone triggering the pack.
"Those not be used by shooting clones." Nimble pointed at the syringes of fluid. "While holding them we not shooting. Leave for Scowling or Pale, they take reeesponsibileeety. Also the the fast application ones, because know where to put them better." It hesitated a moment, looking at Scowling, seemingly realising it was asking for trouble voicing loudly on organisation.
"We not have lots of stuff, and need work smart or not get through',." the clone continued in a wheedling tone, as if justifying the outburst. "If we need upload again Elder might sense block we have now. Need to not be uploaded if we can."
((Craft Mech still 11 for weapons, if you insist, but I reserve the right to say "Told you so!"
Also have to speak up on the way things are distributed. I don't like to do this, I'd rather work it out IC, but last week was stupid, with my character left with bugger all but a rifle and not enough ammunition to actually fully load it. We have to play as a team here. We've been together long enough to believe this shouldn't be an issue, but as it seems it is I'm giving in to the need to rant.
Our healing is very limited. We've no option on stocking up with kits like the last campaign. Strong (GW) needs the regen serum. He can't sneak and is a target pretty quickly. Plus the Dex hit buggers up our hit chance with weapons. We take one for emergency and all spares go to the melee guy.
You're talking about needing to DPS down the opposition fast, and you can't do that while messing around with healing. Particularly from a syringe when you have to equip it. The syringes have to be with those less likely to hit. I've ID'd Scowling (SA) and Pale (Shad) as I think it's likely their characters, but that could be reconsidered if they're more able to hit with the new weapons.
Arguments for us taking the "healing kits" and not the regen serum are void, because the regen serum is self-only and that means they are useless in the hands of a team healer. The healing kit things should stay with the designated team healer(s).
I don't care about having the best weapons, I never have - it's not why I play at all - but taking them while we're ICly discussing where it's best assigned is not the way to do things. There's an argument for them being given to the two worst shots, as that improves overall chances, or to the best shots as we then have really successful firepower even if limited. I'm open to which we do, but if we're not able to discuss it IC before someone makes a unilateral decision then we should make the decision here.
Grenades need to be used intelligently, and giving everyone one each so that we have to discuss who still has one, or waste them by both throwing at once, is not sensible. Not least if we need them to blow up locations rather than just NPCs. Plus we're still damaging others who are close to the targets. There's no Dex roll on thrown items - I don't believe - but Floaters make the most sense, as we can get closest to assess the situation before throwing one. That is if you can ensure you're working the front of the group. On this one I'd say don't leave Nimble out of it as I'm willing to bet I'm the only one who's put cross-class points into Demolitions. We can think about who has them, but again - while we are working out grenade strategy we aren't shooting. So I'd say no more than two of us.
Ammunition is not as limited as it seems if we just consider how many rounds we usually shoot. I don't think I've passed 50 rounds yet, rarely having to worry about reloading, as Modern fights are fast and furious. There's usually a couple of spare packs, though if Strong goes muton fast that will change, so we should take one each and then one take the spares. It doesn't matter who, as long as it's clear. If anyone needs an ammo top up they then know who to ask.
Let's try playing this like a group used to raiding together, and not a PUG!
))
Last edited by Vanya Mia on Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: X-COM: Aliens
Strong looked at Nimble. "So you say we work on better armor? Not sure if eempee grenade work good against humans. I also not see many machines used. Could always use better medicine, sure." Strong waiting to see what the others wanted to do before he dove in.
//I won't be shooting again until level 10, so don't forget to take that into consideration.
//I won't be shooting again until level 10, so don't forget to take that into consideration.
Re: X-COM: Aliens
The Quiet One hesitates briefly, then gently pats The Nimble One on the shoulder. "You are right, we need to work together better. I agree with all you have said about grenades and ammunition. I will carry and throw grenades, I am Quiet and can make good use of them. I can also carry extra ammunition, unless someone else wants to."
Quiet pauses and looks at the rest of the group, "On research however, I still think we should complete the work we have started on the pulse weapon. Once we see strong human vehicles there will not be time to come back and research the weapon. We need to be prepared for when and if we do find them."
// Happy to carry ammo, unless someone else really wants to. How are we possibly running low on ammo anyway? We have like 9 packs and only five who shoot, right?
// Quiet has huge Stealth so I usually try to scout forward and thus can make very good use of grenades.
// Still happy with whatever the consensus research is, but my vote remains finishing the EMP gun. My reasons:
// More generally on the research topic, I think after we decide if we get the EMP gun we should focus on one tree through the 60-80 RP level. The higher research is very strong, and the deeper we go in a tree the more points we will be dumping when we switch. Medical and Support both look great, but I'm sure there are some interesting things deeper in Enhancements, and as I said, I'm crazy curious about the higher level Weapons.
Quiet addresses Scowling and Pale, "Decide what we research next, but I think we need to focus on one project. We are wasting more and more time when we switch our focus from one project area to another!"
Quiet pauses and looks at the rest of the group, "On research however, I still think we should complete the work we have started on the pulse weapon. Once we see strong human vehicles there will not be time to come back and research the weapon. We need to be prepared for when and if we do find them."
// Happy to carry ammo, unless someone else really wants to. How are we possibly running low on ammo anyway? We have like 9 packs and only five who shoot, right?
// Quiet has huge Stealth so I usually try to scout forward and thus can make very good use of grenades.
// Still happy with whatever the consensus research is, but my vote remains finishing the EMP gun. My reasons:
- -- If we change we are wasting a weeks worth of research points
-- We need the EMP gun before we see tanks and robots, not after. We've already seen one tank drone
-- If we change we will likely never come back to it because the improved vibroblade does not look very exciting
-- That said I'm very curious what's after the vibroblade...
// More generally on the research topic, I think after we decide if we get the EMP gun we should focus on one tree through the 60-80 RP level. The higher research is very strong, and the deeper we go in a tree the more points we will be dumping when we switch. Medical and Support both look great, but I'm sure there are some interesting things deeper in Enhancements, and as I said, I'm crazy curious about the higher level Weapons.
Quiet addresses Scowling and Pale, "Decide what we research next, but I think we need to focus on one project. We are wasting more and more time when we switch our focus from one project area to another!"
Re: X-COM: Aliens
The Scowling One hisses, turning the crystal around and around in its long-fingered hands as the workbenches are prepared.
"It is true that the human machines we have encountered have been little threat, susceptible to sustained plasma fire," it thinks. "However. Cyberdiscs may be another matter. Preparing to survive Protocol 66 should be in our minds. I... wish to survive. All of you do too. A weapon capable of crippling the cyberdiscs... this 'EMP weapon'... would be prudent, I think. Yes."
"Just so long as one of you gets on with it," it adds. "I will be busy."
***
((Despite its suggestion, the Scowling One insists on working on the strange crystal device - working with the Pale One, if it's interested in doing the same? - using K: Physical Sciences 10, to investigate its nature.))
"It is true that the human machines we have encountered have been little threat, susceptible to sustained plasma fire," it thinks. "However. Cyberdiscs may be another matter. Preparing to survive Protocol 66 should be in our minds. I... wish to survive. All of you do too. A weapon capable of crippling the cyberdiscs... this 'EMP weapon'... would be prudent, I think. Yes."
"Just so long as one of you gets on with it," it adds. "I will be busy."
***
((Despite its suggestion, the Scowling One insists on working on the strange crystal device - working with the Pale One, if it's interested in doing the same? - using K: Physical Sciences 10, to investigate its nature.))
Re: X-COM: Aliens
"We do weapon then," Nimble threw a nervous glance at Scowling, before turning to Quiet. "But then we change and make things that help protect, I think." Pausing for a moment there was the mental equivalent of the clone's face screwing up in intense concentration, as if trying to explain something that was clear in its head but not easy to communicate.
"I think we learning to be better at learning. Being faster at being inventive," the floater continued. "Make bigger jumps doing cleverer things. So not agree on the switching." It paused again. "It easier to make little steps, and now soon we making steps to long for things that only need little steps. I not sure working hard on just one thing, where it need long time to work out how to do difficult thing, is right when there is something else we can do that easier and still useful."
The clone shook it's head. "But we work on this now. Scowling make sense, need to not let Protocol 66 work on us like it did those before us." With another glance at the sectoid leader the floater buckled down to work on converting the workings of the translator so that it would emit a high powered burst.
((A counterpoint to the argument for going right on to the end of a chain, cos I can never help but play devil's advocate!
Basically it's to take into account that our skill levels also go up, and we will become more able to churn out higher amounts of points later in the campaign. As the campaign progresses and we level up the amount we can bridge easily inside a week is going to increase a lot, hence the loss of the 50% of points isn't the handicap it appears to be. At the moment a 60 point gap is a two week trip, 70 could well be three and 80 definitely is without us all acing the task. Whereas is we managed 42 points from rolls last session, which also puts a 50 point item within reach. For example, with the 15 point carry forward we'd stand a good chance of getting the cyberdisk, and have to be very, very unlucky not to get either of the serums. Before long we would expect those 70 point gaps to be just two weeks work, even if we continue to switch trees.
I guess what I am saying is threefold:
- the larger gaps will be bridged as easily with our higher skill levels later as we are bridging the lower level ones now, because not only will the lead have more points but those assisting will be fair more likely to get the points needed too.
- we are relatively resource light, and while we're spending several weeks working towards some as yet unknown weapon we /could/ have been actually using the things that are more easily researched.
- while we were focused on the one chain previously we missed researching one thing that we actually needed for plot relevance, and while it's possible the translator is the only thing like that we could potentially be missing out on something that's a game changer. Who hear doesn't believe LB could be cackling like mad if - dare I say /when/ - that happens?!
So while I'll go with the flow merrily if it's what's thought to be best, I definitely think we should dot around and get at least the 50 option in all chains before focusing on one again. Of course if someone rolls a twenty, and we see something we really, /really/ want, all bets are off!))
"I think we learning to be better at learning. Being faster at being inventive," the floater continued. "Make bigger jumps doing cleverer things. So not agree on the switching." It paused again. "It easier to make little steps, and now soon we making steps to long for things that only need little steps. I not sure working hard on just one thing, where it need long time to work out how to do difficult thing, is right when there is something else we can do that easier and still useful."
The clone shook it's head. "But we work on this now. Scowling make sense, need to not let Protocol 66 work on us like it did those before us." With another glance at the sectoid leader the floater buckled down to work on converting the workings of the translator so that it would emit a high powered burst.
((A counterpoint to the argument for going right on to the end of a chain, cos I can never help but play devil's advocate!
Basically it's to take into account that our skill levels also go up, and we will become more able to churn out higher amounts of points later in the campaign. As the campaign progresses and we level up the amount we can bridge easily inside a week is going to increase a lot, hence the loss of the 50% of points isn't the handicap it appears to be. At the moment a 60 point gap is a two week trip, 70 could well be three and 80 definitely is without us all acing the task. Whereas is we managed 42 points from rolls last session, which also puts a 50 point item within reach. For example, with the 15 point carry forward we'd stand a good chance of getting the cyberdisk, and have to be very, very unlucky not to get either of the serums. Before long we would expect those 70 point gaps to be just two weeks work, even if we continue to switch trees.
I guess what I am saying is threefold:
- the larger gaps will be bridged as easily with our higher skill levels later as we are bridging the lower level ones now, because not only will the lead have more points but those assisting will be fair more likely to get the points needed too.
- we are relatively resource light, and while we're spending several weeks working towards some as yet unknown weapon we /could/ have been actually using the things that are more easily researched.
- while we were focused on the one chain previously we missed researching one thing that we actually needed for plot relevance, and while it's possible the translator is the only thing like that we could potentially be missing out on something that's a game changer. Who hear doesn't believe LB could be cackling like mad if - dare I say /when/ - that happens?!
So while I'll go with the flow merrily if it's what's thought to be best, I definitely think we should dot around and get at least the 50 option in all chains before focusing on one again. Of course if someone rolls a twenty, and we see something we really, /really/ want, all bets are off!))
Re: X-COM: Aliens
The Pale One was mostly silent during the discussion. It seemed pleased to see this manner of discourse taking place, but it was preoccupied by the strange artifact which Scowling had retrieved. There was nothing quite like it in any of the database they had been permitted to access, and this was cause for great fascination. This might very well open up an entirely new realm of possibilities which had previously been beyond imagining. It was most eager to get started.
"There are advantages to staying ahead of the humans," it said. "And there may be other uses for this type of weapon... this may warrant further investigation. For our next priority, I would like to continue developing new medicine, I think... or else see what might be learned from further improving our techniques. Unless other... possibilities... present themselves."
((On the subject of healing supplies - I can't speak for SA, but I've been neglecting other methods in favour of the healing kits, which are just a lot more high-impact with Pale's treat injury skill. I've been leaving the rest to others on the reasoning that it doesn't do anyone much good if one character has half the healing items. Better production WOULD be a big help, of course, but it's not among our current options. If if there is such a thing, it'll be in the Support tree.
EDIT: Oh, and Physical Sciences: 13!))
"There are advantages to staying ahead of the humans," it said. "And there may be other uses for this type of weapon... this may warrant further investigation. For our next priority, I would like to continue developing new medicine, I think... or else see what might be learned from further improving our techniques. Unless other... possibilities... present themselves."
((On the subject of healing supplies - I can't speak for SA, but I've been neglecting other methods in favour of the healing kits, which are just a lot more high-impact with Pale's treat injury skill. I've been leaving the rest to others on the reasoning that it doesn't do anyone much good if one character has half the healing items. Better production WOULD be a big help, of course, but it's not among our current options. If if there is such a thing, it'll be in the Support tree.
EDIT: Oh, and Physical Sciences: 13!))
Last edited by Shadani on Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: X-COM: Aliens
Originally the stabby healing devices (the Stabilization Kits) were just intended to be an emergency intervention until you got the better medicines (I mean, Cure Minor doesn't do an awful lot). I've kept them around and increased both their numbers and strength because a) they are desperately needed, and b) they were a way to give you an extra bonus from rolling 20s during research.
Also note: the temporary stat penalties from the regen kits are reduced as they improve.
Part of X-COM's charm (the original 1990s game, and to some extent the recent reboot) was the feeling of being on a treadmill that is constantly getting steeper as tougher and tougher enemies keep appearing, while you are desperately trying to balance limited resources and keep up with research. I tried to capture that mood in our previous X-COM campaign's meta-game, and am doing it in a slightly different way in this one as well.
I have a big work event today so I'll post the research results this evening. Spoiler: you completed the EMP project successfully. I will assume Pale is researching the crystal even though Shadani didn't post the skill to be used.
Also note: the temporary stat penalties from the regen kits are reduced as they improve.
Part of X-COM's charm (the original 1990s game, and to some extent the recent reboot) was the feeling of being on a treadmill that is constantly getting steeper as tougher and tougher enemies keep appearing, while you are desperately trying to balance limited resources and keep up with research. I tried to capture that mood in our previous X-COM campaign's meta-game, and am doing it in a slightly different way in this one as well.
I have a big work event today so I'll post the research results this evening. Spoiler: you completed the EMP project successfully. I will assume Pale is researching the crystal even though Shadani didn't post the skill to be used.