The Dragon's Village 2017
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Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
A gaijin came to the village. He had big eyes, was tall and had white-pink skin. On the other hand our resident wu-jen vanished.
The group took the road in search of a missing tax collector. A short journey down the road the dragons encountered a group of bandits, after some fruitless talk blood was spelt, bandit blood mostly.
//
Story Arch ideas
1. One lady in the village or in the next city/village we move to is a kunoichi (female ninja).
2. The former yakusa and/or ninja clan of Tenko found him. If they are ruled by the same Oyabun/Master they can be expected to be hostile. If Tenko's friend is now the head of the clan they can be anything (friendly/neutral/hostile).
The group took the road in search of a missing tax collector. A short journey down the road the dragons encountered a group of bandits, after some fruitless talk blood was spelt, bandit blood mostly.
//
Story Arch ideas
1. One lady in the village or in the next city/village we move to is a kunoichi (female ninja).
2. The former yakusa and/or ninja clan of Tenko found him. If they are ruled by the same Oyabun/Master they can be expected to be hostile. If Tenko's friend is now the head of the clan they can be anything (friendly/neutral/hostile).
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
On returning from dealing with the snake people, the local tanner presented the group with some heavy leather armor fashioned from the hide of the large beast the party had slain in the forest. Nobody else seemed to want it so Gojiro tried it on and decided to keep it. It was a bit stiffer and heavier than what he liked, but it was a lot better than the cheap quilted suit he'd been wearing. Shortly thereafter, they were asked to investigate the disappearance of an imperial tax collector who was supposedly enroute and overdue. A traveling outsider, with strange colored hair and eyes joined up with them on a lark. Gojiro had never seen anything like him before and was curious to learn more about where he'd come from and how he'd ended up in this rustic village.
Personally, Gojiro had no use for imperial officials, least of all tax collectors, whom he viewed as little more than licensed thieves. The rest seemed quite bent on tracking him down though, so he went along on the search. Ranging far ahead of the others, he probed through the hills until he spotted several scruffy looking armed men on a distant ridge line surveying the countryside. These were definitely bandits; he'd seen such types many times. He made his way back and reported this finding to the party, who promptly set out to confront them.
After some preliminary exchange of demands and threats, battle was joined and most of the bandits were slain. Their leader wisely retreated to live to fight another day and no trace of him was found. Ransacking the nearby campsite found evidence of the missing taxman, a uniform and accounts book, plus some coins, gems and scrolls. Gojiro had found and picked up a bit of gold, which the party decided was the taxman's collection, thus imperial tribute they wished to return. This, Gojiro thought was preposterous. They had no way of knowing the exact source of the coins, how much the bandits had carried away or secreted elsewhere, nor how accurate and honest were the taxman's own records. Gojiro had plenty of experience with crooked bureaucrats who didn't bat an eyelid at fudging their accounts to cover up their corrupt use of public funds for their own amusement. The imperials had failed to adequately protect their man or patrol the roads. The party had tracked down the missing official, dispersed the bandits and cleared the roads and surrounding countryside of other menaces to the local citizenry. Thus, in his mind, they - and he, were entitled to whatever loot they recovered in the process. So for now, at least, he was keeping the gold.
Personally, Gojiro had no use for imperial officials, least of all tax collectors, whom he viewed as little more than licensed thieves. The rest seemed quite bent on tracking him down though, so he went along on the search. Ranging far ahead of the others, he probed through the hills until he spotted several scruffy looking armed men on a distant ridge line surveying the countryside. These were definitely bandits; he'd seen such types many times. He made his way back and reported this finding to the party, who promptly set out to confront them.
After some preliminary exchange of demands and threats, battle was joined and most of the bandits were slain. Their leader wisely retreated to live to fight another day and no trace of him was found. Ransacking the nearby campsite found evidence of the missing taxman, a uniform and accounts book, plus some coins, gems and scrolls. Gojiro had found and picked up a bit of gold, which the party decided was the taxman's collection, thus imperial tribute they wished to return. This, Gojiro thought was preposterous. They had no way of knowing the exact source of the coins, how much the bandits had carried away or secreted elsewhere, nor how accurate and honest were the taxman's own records. Gojiro had plenty of experience with crooked bureaucrats who didn't bat an eyelid at fudging their accounts to cover up their corrupt use of public funds for their own amusement. The imperials had failed to adequately protect their man or patrol the roads. The party had tracked down the missing official, dispersed the bandits and cleared the roads and surrounding countryside of other menaces to the local citizenry. Thus, in his mind, they - and he, were entitled to whatever loot they recovered in the process. So for now, at least, he was keeping the gold.
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
"The rocks will roll and the air will sigh and the grass will sway and river will wave for the dragon, because the dragon is the king of all," Moriko said in a sing song voice as they walked along, "and we will stand or fall in its presence." Master rumbled gently and she turned her head to look at Goriko then back at the venerable panda in query.
"Swords are steel and made of man and shiny discs the same. They have no use past the thoughts in the head save to make of the same." The panda rumbled yet again, the final sound very reminiscent of a sigh and Moriko frowned with concern. "But if the soul is pure and the heart seeks to know does that have to be so?" Master gave a long series of grumbles and growls and a nodded his head several times while Moriko slowed her gait and listened intently.
"So that is how it is, I see." She looked at each of them in turn, notably however not at Ning. "But the journey ends for them if they do not learn." Moriko looked back at Master with a worried frown. "They do not know how to be." Master's grumbling took on a philosophical tone then ended in a soothing sounding grumble as Moriko's frown deepened.
"I will try to but it would be a shame, so I will do what I can but try not to say."
"Swords are steel and made of man and shiny discs the same. They have no use past the thoughts in the head save to make of the same." The panda rumbled yet again, the final sound very reminiscent of a sigh and Moriko frowned with concern. "But if the soul is pure and the heart seeks to know does that have to be so?" Master gave a long series of grumbles and growls and a nodded his head several times while Moriko slowed her gait and listened intently.
"So that is how it is, I see." She looked at each of them in turn, notably however not at Ning. "But the journey ends for them if they do not learn." Moriko looked back at Master with a worried frown. "They do not know how to be." Master's grumbling took on a philosophical tone then ended in a soothing sounding grumble as Moriko's frown deepened.
"I will try to but it would be a shame, so I will do what I can but try not to say."
Last edited by Vanya Mia on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
"The Dragon's Tomb..." Wen blinked, as the party jogged in the direction of the hills beyond the tanner's. "Who would rob such a thing? What can they hope to find? The great general has been at rest for hundreds of years! Why now?"
The swordsman pants as he tries to pick up the pace. "The Wise Man of Water once said, 'being a model - pant - to the world, eternal virtue will never falter in you, and you return to the boundless.' No man remembered by history demonstrated this as well as the Dragon! We cannot let this be!"
***
((I feel awkward about this, but I feel like I gotta say somethin'...
There's no way for another character to see what's in my character's hand, unless it's an equippable item. NWN lacks that functionality. So what we've done in the past is put items on the ground so that everyone can see them.
But people don't literally do that. When someone wants to show you what's in their hand, they don't put it on the ground. They just hold it up so you can see it. And even when you do put something on the ground, it's at your feet, it's not easy for someone to just walk over and pick it up without you being able to pick it up first. If we're all standing around a body, our characters can all see if someone takes something. I try to take care to emote if I'm looting something, and list the items I collect, because of this.
My philosophy with regards to loot and gold has always been this: that these campaigns are partly a series of puzzles. Each battle is a tactical puzzle, each roleplaying encounter is an imaginative puzzle. Allocating the resources we find in the adventure is a strategic puzzle. So wherever possible, I prefer that gold and loot is given equally (with an allowance given to designated healers), and when it comes to equipment, that items are given either to the one able to use them most effectively, or the one in greatest need. There is a game, and also a meta-game, that we are all playing.
I like to believe I can be a fair arbiter of these things. I like to trust that everyone will give everyone else a fair shake, and play fair with me, too.
I feel uncomfortable about what happened in the last game, because it's left me feeling that nothing I put on the ground to show people is recognised as still in my character's 'hand', so I feel like I can't do that any more. The gold is taxes, so rather than 'gold', to be spent, I see it as more of a quest item. The quest as I see it is, "Return the stolen taxes." Which makes Gojiro an obstacle in the way of the mission that the party, in theory, shares. We are not co-operating any more.
And that is the feeling - rather than working in co-operation, it feels as if we're having to be in competition with each other for resources a lot over these past few campaigns, clicking on placeables to loot them before others can. More than once I've seen items on a corpse or in a container that are taken out of that container by someone else, and no mention is made of it. There's this scramble - some players are playing mercenary characters, I get that, but I also feel that trust between us as players has broken down.
This isn't a way I enjoy playing, so I hope we can do something about it. Can we not pick things up, without some kind of go-ahead sign? Can we loot containers and also emote what we're picking up? Can we lay out the things we find for the group to consider, and be able to trust it'll stay there until we've had a chance to consider it?
And If we can't do these things, what other compromise is possible?))
The swordsman pants as he tries to pick up the pace. "The Wise Man of Water once said, 'being a model - pant - to the world, eternal virtue will never falter in you, and you return to the boundless.' No man remembered by history demonstrated this as well as the Dragon! We cannot let this be!"
***
((I feel awkward about this, but I feel like I gotta say somethin'...
There's no way for another character to see what's in my character's hand, unless it's an equippable item. NWN lacks that functionality. So what we've done in the past is put items on the ground so that everyone can see them.
But people don't literally do that. When someone wants to show you what's in their hand, they don't put it on the ground. They just hold it up so you can see it. And even when you do put something on the ground, it's at your feet, it's not easy for someone to just walk over and pick it up without you being able to pick it up first. If we're all standing around a body, our characters can all see if someone takes something. I try to take care to emote if I'm looting something, and list the items I collect, because of this.
My philosophy with regards to loot and gold has always been this: that these campaigns are partly a series of puzzles. Each battle is a tactical puzzle, each roleplaying encounter is an imaginative puzzle. Allocating the resources we find in the adventure is a strategic puzzle. So wherever possible, I prefer that gold and loot is given equally (with an allowance given to designated healers), and when it comes to equipment, that items are given either to the one able to use them most effectively, or the one in greatest need. There is a game, and also a meta-game, that we are all playing.
I like to believe I can be a fair arbiter of these things. I like to trust that everyone will give everyone else a fair shake, and play fair with me, too.
I feel uncomfortable about what happened in the last game, because it's left me feeling that nothing I put on the ground to show people is recognised as still in my character's 'hand', so I feel like I can't do that any more. The gold is taxes, so rather than 'gold', to be spent, I see it as more of a quest item. The quest as I see it is, "Return the stolen taxes." Which makes Gojiro an obstacle in the way of the mission that the party, in theory, shares. We are not co-operating any more.
And that is the feeling - rather than working in co-operation, it feels as if we're having to be in competition with each other for resources a lot over these past few campaigns, clicking on placeables to loot them before others can. More than once I've seen items on a corpse or in a container that are taken out of that container by someone else, and no mention is made of it. There's this scramble - some players are playing mercenary characters, I get that, but I also feel that trust between us as players has broken down.
This isn't a way I enjoy playing, so I hope we can do something about it. Can we not pick things up, without some kind of go-ahead sign? Can we loot containers and also emote what we're picking up? Can we lay out the things we find for the group to consider, and be able to trust it'll stay there until we've had a chance to consider it?
And If we can't do these things, what other compromise is possible?))
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
//
I tend to agree with SA regarding loot. They are common resources and should be used in a way that will give the group a higher chance of survival when we face tougher enemies.
However, we need IMHO to balance that with RP. Back in the days when rogues were called thieves it was expected that some characters in the party could not be fully trusted. Most of them would not hesitate to sneak ahead of the group and loot things, pickpocket anyone including party members or go through a friend backpack while he was asleep.
The good news is that we had a RP ways to deal with that.
If the character had a new visible item he/she was not expected to possess we had "Wait a minute Mouse, where did you get these boots?"
If the character backpack was heavier or bigger than expected, again the thief would be put to the question.
Once and a while the "poor" thief would have to empty his/her pockets and backpack and the others would recover rings, gems and other things they had lost. Other times, the barbarian/fighter/ranger in the party would grab the reluctant thief by his feet, hold him up and shake him to see what fruits he was hiding.
I guess you got the idea. So yes I believe we can do better using SAs and my suggestions plus other ideas LB or other players may have.
BTW, there was a group I played with where looting was done by party members in turn. So there was only one character opening chests, crates... at any given time. It is a bit slower but probably more in line with SA's suggestion.
I tend to agree with SA regarding loot. They are common resources and should be used in a way that will give the group a higher chance of survival when we face tougher enemies.
However, we need IMHO to balance that with RP. Back in the days when rogues were called thieves it was expected that some characters in the party could not be fully trusted. Most of them would not hesitate to sneak ahead of the group and loot things, pickpocket anyone including party members or go through a friend backpack while he was asleep.
The good news is that we had a RP ways to deal with that.
If the character had a new visible item he/she was not expected to possess we had "Wait a minute Mouse, where did you get these boots?"
If the character backpack was heavier or bigger than expected, again the thief would be put to the question.
Once and a while the "poor" thief would have to empty his/her pockets and backpack and the others would recover rings, gems and other things they had lost. Other times, the barbarian/fighter/ranger in the party would grab the reluctant thief by his feet, hold him up and shake him to see what fruits he was hiding.
I guess you got the idea. So yes I believe we can do better using SAs and my suggestions plus other ideas LB or other players may have.
BTW, there was a group I played with where looting was done by party members in turn. So there was only one character opening chests, crates... at any given time. It is a bit slower but probably more in line with SA's suggestion.
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
((Personally I feel what Mirg says goes for any party character regardless of class. I have often played a character with self-centred ways but here is the main thing - the character has chosen to be/remain part of a group in order to further their chances and to do that they have to keep the party functioning.
The key issue for me is this - if a character is working for themselves alone while in a group I would argue whether they would be in one IC at all. If the excuse is they are 'there to take advantage' then OOC this can be grossly unbalancing as an approach, and also unfair in that the rest of the group aren't necessarily in an position to prevent it IC for OOC reasons. While I rather enjoy the moral debates different character approaches can fuel I feel it can start to blur that IC/OOC divide quite badly and make it difficult for everyone to run their character as they would like to.
I accept that what drives some players is levelling up and gaining loot but for me that's completely incidental, a means to an end. The important things are the story and that character development, we're fortunate enough to have a DM who provides excellently for both. I recognise the impact of loot and XP only in terms of a prop to character development, or to ensure your character survives well enough to get that. What I don't want to see is protracted arrangements to ensure this either, as that will worsen the IC/OOC blur.
So I'll echo SA's frustration. We've been playing as a group now for a very, very long time and should be able to acknowledge what drives each of us to play without the need for agreed mechanics to arrange it.))
The key issue for me is this - if a character is working for themselves alone while in a group I would argue whether they would be in one IC at all. If the excuse is they are 'there to take advantage' then OOC this can be grossly unbalancing as an approach, and also unfair in that the rest of the group aren't necessarily in an position to prevent it IC for OOC reasons. While I rather enjoy the moral debates different character approaches can fuel I feel it can start to blur that IC/OOC divide quite badly and make it difficult for everyone to run their character as they would like to.
I accept that what drives some players is levelling up and gaining loot but for me that's completely incidental, a means to an end. The important things are the story and that character development, we're fortunate enough to have a DM who provides excellently for both. I recognise the impact of loot and XP only in terms of a prop to character development, or to ensure your character survives well enough to get that. What I don't want to see is protracted arrangements to ensure this either, as that will worsen the IC/OOC blur.
So I'll echo SA's frustration. We've been playing as a group now for a very, very long time and should be able to acknowledge what drives each of us to play without the need for agreed mechanics to arrange it.))
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
((how are people feeling with the game, the way things are now?))
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
I'm way ahead of you, man.Mirgalen wrote:Story Arch ideas
1. One lady in the village or in the next city/village we move to is a kunoichi (female ninja).
2. The former yakusa and/or ninja clan of Tenko found him. If they are ruled by the same Oyabun/Master they can be expected to be hostile. If Tenko's friend is now the head of the clan they can be anything (friendly/neutral/hostile).
Re: The Dragon's Village 2017
On loot: because of the nature of the NWN engine and the points that SA and VM made it's important that loot be equitably shared within the party. It's okay to have disagreements about things like the bandits' gold, but at the very least there should be equal shares and then each party member can decide what to do with their share. It might be more logical from a RP-perspective for a character to pocket loot if they can get away with it, but since the nature of the game precludes any significant consequences for that behavior (such as expulsion or forced redistribution) we need to use a more artificially equitable system. The only alternative solution would be for me to start rolling Spot checks to see if anyone else notices the grab, but I suspect that could lead to a rapid collapse of party unity.
Note that with the DMFI wands I can quickly calculate how much wealth (in both gold and items) each character has. I can say that at the moment there is an imbalance, although in past games such things have tended to work out over time. In the last campaign Nihmri had far and away the most "wealth," primarily because her character accumulated some very powerful items through the normal loot-distribution process. But I don't think anyone had an issue with that because everyone had a shot at good items and all other wealth was mostly evenly distributed.
In past games we've had a party banker who is responsible for selling all items of value that are not useful to a party member and holding the party gold, and who distributes equal shares after each visit to a merchant. That seems to work. IIRC The Dragon's Village Campaign (at least the early mods) doesn't use appraise checks, so anyone can serve in that role.
Note that with the DMFI wands I can quickly calculate how much wealth (in both gold and items) each character has. I can say that at the moment there is an imbalance, although in past games such things have tended to work out over time. In the last campaign Nihmri had far and away the most "wealth," primarily because her character accumulated some very powerful items through the normal loot-distribution process. But I don't think anyone had an issue with that because everyone had a shot at good items and all other wealth was mostly evenly distributed.
In past games we've had a party banker who is responsible for selling all items of value that are not useful to a party member and holding the party gold, and who distributes equal shares after each visit to a merchant. That seems to work. IIRC The Dragon's Village Campaign (at least the early mods) doesn't use appraise checks, so anyone can serve in that role.